{"id":279,"date":"2008-05-11T20:55:00","date_gmt":"2008-05-11T20:55:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/2008\/05\/11\/279\/"},"modified":"2014-12-20T20:35:57","modified_gmt":"2014-12-21T01:35:57","slug":"279","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/?p=279","title":{"rendered":"Beam me up, Scotty, for some dialog . . ."},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I&#8217;m currently reading a book by David Bohm and David Peat (Science, Order and Creativity), which is mostly a collection of interesting thoughts from the 1980&#8217;s.  One of those interesting thoughts regards the distinction between discussion and dialogue regarding positions on important social issues. <\/p>\n<p>Discussion is mostly what we do here in America today; i.e., we make up our minds and enter into discussions with people having different opinions.  Those discussions are meant to either browbeat the other side into giving in and accepting our own ideas, or finding a compromise whereby each side gets something (as much as possible), but also accepts some dissatisfaction.  The underlying assumption is that both sides stick by their guns.  By contrast, dialogue is to enter into talks with an open mind about why the other side disagrees with you, with a willingness to listen and maybe change your opinion if your opponent has a good point.  Unfortunately, that&#8217;s not the American way.  We have way too much discussion and way too little dialogue here, especially in our politics.  But ain&#8217;t that America.<\/p>\n<p>Here&#8217;s another random thought regarding a philosophic issue stemming from science fiction, i.e. the Star Trek stories.  In the various versions of Star Trek, people can be instantly &#8220;beamed up&#8221; from one point to another using a teletransporter device.  This is a few centuries in the future, remember.  I was never bothered by this idea, but after reading some philosopher&#8217;s comments about it, I now am.  Not that it&#8217;s a real issue; the actual technology to teletransport people is hardly even imaginable right now.  But still, the transporter concept touches on some underlying issues regarding who we are and what our lives and self-identities represent.<\/p>\n<p>The big question about the teletransporter is this: is that really you at the other end after the process is over?  Or did you die in the process, with some bogus copy of you being created?  And even if the copy was perfect, is that still really you?  There are various interpretations about how the teletransporter would work; in one interpretation, all of the sub-atomic particles that make up your body would be transported at near the speed of light to a re-assembly point.  So, the re-composed body is made of exactly the same stuff.  That sounds comforting.  But still, in the scrambling process, you actually stopped living; you were dead for a few instants.  But then again, a lot of people have been dead temporarily but revived after some trauma.  <\/p>\n<p>It sounds to me as though the human identity would survive the Star Trek transporter process, IF all of your experiences up to the micro-second of transport were captured and conveyed to the reassembled body on the other planet (or where ever); and if your exact stuff went down in the &#8220;beam&#8221;.  Now what if that varied?  What if the stuff you were made of prior to teletransport were thrown away, and you were reassembled with identical particles from where you landed?  That makes me feel a little more queezy; but OK, so long as the copy on the other side were perfect, no real problem.  I mean, we change our atomic composition every day by some percent.  No one stays exactly the same in physical makeup.  <\/p>\n<p>Next possible problem: what if the transport problem scanned you about a half second or so before you lost consciousness, and then re-assembled you using that scan information?  The &#8220;you&#8221; in the transporter room went on living for another half second or so before you were scrambled out of existence.  The copy that was built on the planet Zarcon didn&#8217;t catch what you might have thought or felt in that final half-second.  So, were you killed? Or was a little bit of you killed?  Are you still comfortable that the teletransported copy of you would really be you?  And what if the machine had a little stall, and you went on living for a minute or two &#8212; would you want to hit a red-button and stop the whole process before being atomically dismembered?<\/p>\n<p>And then of course there are some wacky possibilities that could occur if the machine further malfunctions. What if the machine copies you and reassembles a living copy of you down on Zarcon, but fails to scramble the original you?  So now there are two of you, having the same memories, the same identity, the same jobs, the same families, the same wife . . .  but who is the real you?  Figure that one out.<\/p>\n<p>(And yes, there was a Star Trek TNG episode called &#8220;<a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Second_Chances_%28Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation%29\" target=\"_blank\">Second Chances<\/a>&#8221; where Riker had been beamed up from a planet years ago but the original on the planet survived.  And the planet-refuge was later recovered by the Enterprise, and thus had to deal with the beamed-up version of Riker.)<\/p>\n<p>For now, we have bigger problems to worry about, like $5 a gallon gas and $1.50 a pound rice.  But still, for a true geek like me, it&#8217;s an interesting little diversion.  So beam me up, Scotty.  And I&#8217;ll see you on the other side.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I&#8217;m currently reading a book by David Bohm and David Peat (Science, Order and Creativity), which is mostly a collection of interesting thoughts from the 1980&#8217;s. One of those interesting thoughts regards the distinction between discussion and dialogue regarding positions on important social issues. Discussion is mostly what we do here in America today; i.e., [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[10,23],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/279"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=279"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/279\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5025,"href":"https:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/279\/revisions\/5025"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=279"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=279"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/jimgworld.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=279"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}